Parents who don’t vaccinate their children should be charged with neglect. Also, if their unvaccinated children get a preventable illness and then pass it on to another child, the parents should also be charged with child endangerment.

Ehh it’s not neglect-it’s a choice. But I think parents with a child that gets a preventative disease and pass it to others should face fines. Parents should be required to pay for any medical bills from the kids their children exposed unnecessarily. As in they should feel the consequences of their choices when they impact other families

@Julia I personally don’t believe in the “It’s the parent(s) choice” argument because.. where’s the limit for that? Some parents choose to use physical discipline with their kids, should that not be concerning because that was their choice as a parent?

That's the thing. This is your OPINION. Perspective changes how we see things. You don't HAVE to personally believe it's the parents choice or not. Just like someone else doesn't have to believe your way of thinking. To force your beliefs on others is also wrong. Also, it's usually pretty hard to find out how some people got sick and who from. There is usually no way to know for most cases. There usually is no way to 100% prove. Example, someone Vax against covid can STILL get covid and pass it to someone else. Vax or not. Vax doesn't always mean 100% preventable. Some parents are ok with vaxs, while other choose not to because they don't trust what is in vaxs. Hence, they feel they are protecting their kids from chemicals and poisons. Which, from that prospective, protecting in that way isn't neglectful. Just like someone who believes in Vax feel they are helping their kids from sicknesses. Prospective is EVERYTHING In this. To disagree with the other side is a right you have. Do what is best for YOUR kids.

Also, physical discipline is clearly not even remotely in the same ball field as Vax.

@Bree Them not being in the same ball field is YOUR opinion. I believe they both put the child in harms way and should be punished. 🤷🏻‍♀️ idc what anybody says, parents do NOT always know what’s best for their kids.

@Bree What about toddler leashes then? What if a parent doesn’t agree they’re necessary for their child, who has a history of running off, and that child ends up running off and going missing or getting hurt? Is the blame not even partially on the parent, even though they knowingly avoided taking the proper measures?

One thing we DO agree on. Sometimes parent don't know best. That's true. BOTH sides can get it wrong sometimes. But the point is, they are making a decision is what they think is in the kids best interests. Parenting isn't a perfect science. There WILL be mistakes. But, no one should be FORCED to put something into their body against their will. And as a parent, that decision for their kid fall on the parent. NOT someone else who's a complete stranger to them, just because they think that person's kid need it. Just like if you're in the hospital and certain medication you don't want is forced on you, there would be a lawsuit. Would there not? You say no, what if they just did it anyway? You have the RIGHT to choose. That's freedom. No one has to agree with your choice. If someone os sitting there beating their kid, that's abusive. Kids getting hurt and needs help. That's not two sided. So, only the abuser would be ok with it. That's not healthy mental health obviously. And no one in their right mind...

Would argue that. And leashes, some people don't need them. EVEN if their kid is known to run off. There are other options that could be used. There isn't a one size fits all for every family. I have 6 kids and have owned leashes. They DONT work for my family, unless I want to drag my toddler across the floor. Not all kids are the same. Parenting means studying your kids and what works for that kid. So, no stranger can really tell another stranger what works 100%. You're talking about an option. Not a necessity for all families.

What if you were FORCED to NOT vax your kids. Forced, zero say. Would you be ok with that? Because someone chooses it for you because they believed it's best for you. Would you feel that you're failing to protect your kids? I can assume your answer is yes. The opposite party that is against vax buy being forced would feel the same way. Honestly, be passionate about what you believe. You should be passionate about protecting your kids. You're a mama. That's your job. But, your job ISNT choosing how others protect theirs. With the exception of actual abuse and such. Which vax or lack of leashes are not.

I was following until that last part. What’s the point of vaccinations if you can contract the disease? Also I thought we all knew now that vaccinated people should be aware that they may carry diseases without symptoms? Like the whole point is that your immune system is now equipped to fight it. People who live with immune-compromised persons know this bc you still have to wear masks/wash hands, etc around them. Even if you’re vaccinated

Also, charging someone because they THINK their kid got sick by another kid. Unless there is sure proof, which is hard to get. Like you literally SAW that kid cough in your kids face on purpose. Because sickness is pretty complex and can't always be seen or noticed. Or heck, you can't see the virus that's was on something going you touched. Figuring that out would be close to impossible. People get sick all the time and have zero clue where they pick it up from. So, that's would be pretty hard to do. I'm sure you couldn't tell me who got you sick every time you were sick, right? Do what is best for your family, love you kids, protect them in ways you can and feel is best for them. Let others do the same for theirs. Good parents are doing the best they can by their kids. Even if you don't agree with all their beliefs.

Or another one. What if your vaxed kid got another vaxed kid sick? Should you be charged a fine then, too? Or are they immune to that. See what I mean? It's too complex. Freedom doesn't mean someone chooses for you. Nor does it mean someone had to agree with you in order to do it. There, rant is done. I'm sure you won't change your mind regardless of what I've written. Or maybe you will change some judgement. I don't know. But thats the thing, you DONT have to change your mind. You have the FREEDOM to think what you want too. Thats a luxury thats some may not have in other countries. But i still wasited my time for anyone that may need to see the other perspective.

@Rosalie when you've been vaccinated you have the antibodies in your system. This means if you're exposed to the disease or illness you can fight it off more quickly and easily. So some illnesses you might still get but not get anywhere near so severely

Vaccines have become a victim of their own success. They're so good at doing what they do, people have forgotten the reason why we use them in the first place

That’s a scary idea though that we have no choice. We can’t force people to vaccinate. But can make the system harder for them is they make a choice that negatively impacts society as a whole. I think kids should not be allowed in public schools without vaccines and there should be fees if they cause an outbreak or spread things

So I do think vaccines are necessary but also I think that if we made not vaccinating a crime, that would give pharmaceutical companies a concerning amount of power

Tbh my kids don’t get a majority of the vaccines available. I do my due diligence in researching each one and weighing pros vs cons. I’m not against them, definitely not antivax. Just aiming to be logical and healthy keeping future health in mind for each child. Also, we do not have a healthcare system that has established trust, which I think is a fair concern when living in a country where billionaires monetize on these things and so many long term studies come out years after FDA approval with horrific data…So ultimately, if it makes sense, if the present risk outweighs the concern of long term effects, sure, we opt in…but many simply don’t, so we opt out. I am not neglecting my children, quite the opposite.

@Tiff what do you think about herd immunity?

@Laura So yes, it works in theory for some of the vaccines. Not the majority. For example the RSV, Covid, Tdap, Diphtheria, Pertussis vaccines do not prevent transmission, so herd immunity doesn’t apply. The Measles vaccine can prevent transmission, that is one of the vaccines we did take.

https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org Big fan of this site

@Tiff I'm glad that factors into your decisions. Although, if diseases are less severe, maybe we have them less time and less time for transmission? I'll take a look at the site

@Laura Thats a valid factor to consider. It’s all more complex then it has been made out to be. It depends on the individual vaccine, so if you’re a nerd for rabbit holes, it’s worth evaluating each one, taking a look at the clinical trials and the other data associated if you have questions or concerns. In terms of severity, it’s interesting to look at because one of the reasons why some illnesses made a comeback post 2020, was because we were quarantined, masking, and sanitizing…so the typical exposures for building immunity didn’t occur which left us more vulnerable then usual, hence RSV, causing more hospitalizations then it had in years. Overall, I don’t fault people for trusting western medicine and getting what they’re told to get and I don’t fault people for questioning it within rational thinking. For me, I think the best answers are somewhere in the middle ground and it’s important to not fall into groupthink and remember to stay open to learning. This is ever changing data.

@Tiff I know I didn't reply yet, haven't found the time to properly engage with your website suggestion. I just saw this post and wondered what you'd think about it https://www.instagram.com/p/DHTjSRhM-0y/?img_index=10&igsh=MWEwbDhocmlrOXdzMQ==