Work sickness policies
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How do I approach this further? This guys been going back and forth with me for days
Wow, citing compassionate leave as a reason as well, not very compassionate is it!! Surely something like that couldn't be a trigger either because it's more discretionary? I'd challenge both.
I’m getting tired of it all. Little background I had a miscarriage on 24th Feb. I was ongoing bleeding ended up having a procedure 11th March. During this time I was signed off sick. Following this sick note of “ongoing miscarriage” I was then given compassionate leave that I didn’t ask for. After this compassionate leave finished I was then signed off by gp on stress leave and the reason behind it is I work in the maternity unit I felt it was insensitive to put me back there post miscarriage but they refused and said I’d be put there. I asked to be put in generals they said due to staffing they can’t. Then I found out I’m pregnant again and I had sickness so sick note further extended but under pregnancy sickness… none of what they’re doing is okay
It looks like acas should be able to provide free impartial advice so may be worth contacting them for further help on how to manage this. I'm sorry this is happening and definitely sounds like they're in the wrong here. You could maybe reply with the information from acas about how pregnancy related illness should be legally handled but personally I think I'd just reply to say you don't wish to discuss it further as you are discussing your case with acas but will return to him once you have done so.
This is a time when your employer should be going out of their way to support you, they should know better and I'm so sorry this is happening! You can't touch pregnancy related illness, it's a protected characteristic. Unless there's something we're missing here. Is there a % absence trigger as well as the 3 instances? Even then it's tenuous at best because I would argue that the anxiety/stress absence is linked to your miscarriage. I could understand them arranging a meeting to discuss ways in which they could support you in being at work. Attendance management is unacceptable. I agree with Gemma above, contact ACAS asap for some backup! And yes I would email saying that as pregnancy related sickness is a protected characteristic and compassionate leave is not sick leave, you are seeking legal advice and will respond after you've received it. You should be able to find the details of the HR department and Cc them in, if it were me I would also Cc in the person who sent this email's manager.
No the trigger isn’t % based- it’s 3 episodes in 6 months which I haven’t had. As the bulk of me being off has been miscarriage related and then new pregnancy related. I have also emailed HR on Sunday evening but no response as of yet so I’ll wait till end of the week and then take things further. In my eyes this is borderline harassment and discrimination
It's either someone who really has no business managing employees, who lacks basic understanding of the law and has unwittingly discriminated against you or purposeful as you've said. There's no way this can go forward, I know it's easier said than done but try not to let it get to you in the meantime because even if they did manage somehow to hold this meeting, if they sanction you they're opening themselves up to all sorts of trouble!
Absolutely correct. Pregnancy related absence doesn't count as sick leave.
Are you a member of a union? This is something they could help you with. I found ACAS weren’t very helpful other than clarifying rules. But I think they offer some mediation service? Or I could be thinking of citizens advice. There’s also charities that can help such as Pregnant then screwed and maternity action, they have employment lawyers and HR professionals on their helplines. Maternity action also has loads of draft letters with some of the common issues. As above, because it’s a protected characteristic, before going into full on attack mode, get what you can in writing to confirm they know two were pregnancy related. And again as above, if this isn’t HR (and I hope it isn’t!) speak to them.
As a HR professional, I 100% agree with everything Rachel has said. Definitely contact Acas, once you mention Acas in your response they might probably back off, not wanting trouble. Also use ChatGPT, tell it to give you a legal point of view and ask it to refine your initial response to them.
This is a difficult one as it's very sensitive clearly, if you are in the union with the NHS I would attend the meeting and explain all of this clearly as they should discount the pregnancy related absence which will most likely be done once the meeting is held... I'd consult your local policies and guidelines and reach out to acas to see if they have any frameworks to support. Different employers manage this differently and have varying policies so it's hard to say any more really... Sadly compassion seems to lack in many organisations these days x
Pregnancy and compassionate leave are not triggers. Compassionate leave shouldn’t have even been mentioned as it’s leave not sickness. Get a copy of their time out/sickness policy, it should detail it in there. I would say they’re discriminating against you or there’s some sort of vendetta. Is this from HR or your line manager ? Feel free to message me if you need some support
Are you sure it’s 3 episodes in 6 months? I work for NHS and it’s 3 episode over 12 months that would trigger stage 1. My Trust’s policy on sickness and it clearly states pregnancy related doesn’t count. It might also be in the ‘family’ policy. Have you had a look through your polices and quoted these to HR? Why isn’t your manager supporting you? Sorry this is happening to you, it’s stress you don’t need and considering the reasoning behind why you took the time off, it’s made even worse by your employer not supporting you. Agree with what everyone else has said.
I would go to the meeting and I would reign down hell on them. I would also write to someone higher up than them because this should be wiped off x
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Is your trigger points just 3 occasions? Mine is either 5 occasions or 15 days, whichever comes first. And you had a longer period for the anxiety and stress. But regardless pregnancy and compassionate should not be included! agree with these comments. Hope you get it sorted soon xx
please contact your union and discuss this with them! None of those should trigger an investigation if anything your employer should support you more, especially with this being the NHS!
@Amy yes my hospital trust is 3 episodes in 6 months.
Unacceptable. I had to remind my manager that my pregnancy sickness should not trigger any absence warning or he would find himself in hot water. They can record it, but it cannot be used against you for any formal absence reviews, only if they are offering support such as informal meetings to give reasonable adjustments etc. I’m sorry you’re having to put up with that when you should be putting your health first 💖
They can give you the meeting because that’s procedure when having a certain amount of time off however nothing will come of it due to the reasons. I had a meeting as my time off was for MC and the pregnancy sickness (12 weeks off) they said I had to do the meeting but no further action was taken due to the reasons x
Compassionate leave is something completely different and shouldn't be included in any sickness related occasions, and pregnancy stuff isn't marked against you either, so in actual fact you've had 2 sick occasions in 4 months
Call acas or the charity Pregnant then screwed to get advice.
Yes that is correct. They can keep that on their records but they can’t count it in order to have a meeting with you https://www.acas.org.uk/managing-your-employees-maternity-leave-and-pay/if-theyre-ill-or-having-a-difficult-pregnancy