When does human life begin?

Specifically said HUMAN life. Like when is it a person? A human?

Abortion is also okay. If you are having to get one soon or had one. It’s okay. You made the best decision at the time with the information you had. You are not a bad person and you are/ will make a good mother one day.🫶

Well there’s a difference in where “life begins” and where “personhood begins” Biological life existing does not always yield personhood. 🤷‍♀️ Depends on the question you are actually seeking a discussion about.

I personally won’t judge you for an abortion but I believe life begins at conception cuz I think that’s what the question is hinting at. There’s an interesting video where when the sperm and egg collide it’s almost like a spark of light. I think that’s beautiful. My baby has been my baby since I found out I was pregnant, at her first scan, at 20 weeks and at birth. It’s okay to have a different opinion but that’s mine vice versa. I think this kind of opinion also sometimes changes before and after you have your first child. It’s kind of a shift in mentality because still till this day I can’t grasp the idea that my body made a whole human it’s literally insane. AGAIN just my option all love here😘🩵

All the above. If you get a chance to live earth side then you’ve lived a life otherwise, you havent lived to see it yet. Life has many stages.. not everyone has had the same life.. some life is cut short some live longevity.. too many live lengths.not everyone makes it to 100+ years. I still county my unborn siblings…rip💔 I know I had two unborn siblings. One passed away because of the jacuzzi and the other was intentional.. my little sisters dad was mentally abusive.. glad that baby was saved

@Danielle of course everyone is just making decisions for ourselves and our families the best we can with the information we have! It’s valid and ok to have an abortion, then later change our mind about it ❤️

@Parker 又 I like this answer a lot. The cells are alive, the embryo is alive, the fetus is alive, that's just science. But I don't believe that a person's life starts until they are born and take their first breath.

I think somewhere between heartbeat and functional nervous system (can make deliberate movement/feel pain/stimuli)

Responding to stimuli is in fact a scientific prerequisite of life. https://basicbiology.net/biology-101/mrs-gren?amp

@Melissa I think the website pertains to animal biology not human. It talks about prey vs predator and gives examples of animals instead of humans, from what I read but I could be wrong

@Maria that website in particular, perhaps, but those 7 standards of life are universal across biology. Response to stimuli is one of them. The wiki page will say the same thing.

I read “basic biology” I think it’s biology itself as it reads its basic biology. But I didn’t click it. So that’s all I can say.

First breath

100% life starts at conception, that’s how we are all here talking about this. Our development wasn’t interfered with so here we are. Let’s give that chance to innocent baby’s trying to develop and grow.

@lale an ectopic baby is equally innocent, doesn't mean we sacrifice the mother's life for theirs.

@Melissa the woman in that case will miscarry, an ectopic pregnancy is an anomaly. The baby would not survive as the mother wouldn’t be able to carry that baby to term. There are anomaly’s out there, there’s women who miscarry unfortunately, horrible events.

@lale yes I am aware, I am one of those women who has had a miscarriage. I bled for 2 months. The fetus not being viable does not make it any less innocent.

It's also not guaranteed the woman will miscarry before her fertility, her health, or her life are sacrificed. Women can die from an ectopic pregnancy.

@Melissa sorry you went through that, must’ve been difficult for you 💕 there isn’t something we can do to save the innocent life, just like in this life there’s many lives taken with natural causes, there’s nothing we can physically do. But if there is a forced ending of an innocent life it’s a different story I believe.

@lale the procedure to terminate an ectopic pregnancy is exactly the same as the procedure to terminate a viable pregnancy at the same stage. Similarly, when pregnancy tissue remains (as mine did), the same procedure can save a woman from going septic. There are absolutely procedures in place to save the lives of innocent women. A D&C is one of them. Medical management is another. It is not a question of "forced ending of a life" or "innocence." It is the reality that abortion goes hand in hand with medical care, and miscarriages, and that restrictions directly result in more dead mothers and babies.

@Melissa so if the ectopic pregnancy was to go without any intervention then will the mother or the baby survive? The mother is obviously not able to carry the baby and the baby is not in the womb to survive a pregnancy. It is completely different to a healthy pregnancy. I said to you anomaly’s happen, exceptions don’t make the rule. I don’t get why you’re sticking to this when they’re different situations. If the healthy pregnancy was to go forward the baby would survive right? Common sense here is important

@lale because the care is the same. Ectopic pregnancies NEED access to abortion services. Your health and life is at risk if you try to carry the pregnancy to term. Yes, it will terminate eventually, and you may be dead by then, we'd rather avoid that. The point is that you ascribe the term "innocent" to a fetus, but a fetus is not any less innocent if it happens to implant in a fallopian tube. "Innocence" is not the point. If you are arguing that every "innocent" fetus is equivalent and should be given a chance at life, that includes ALL fetuses, not just the viable ones. And, in practice, when it comes down to it, the health care is the same. The medical management is the same. The D&C procedure is the same. Restricting access to abortion health care is restricting access for everyone - not just the people you deem "appropriate" for it.

@Melissa who said health care isn’t important? You’re delusional if someone needs the hospital if they’re dying to get care… an innocent fetus who is miscarried is unfortunate as I mentioned… it’s not the mother or the hospitals fault of this “life threatening” condition, it’s a natural occurrence. A woman who is healthily pregnant does not need abortion to save her life, ectopic pregnancy her and her baby would be dying so it’s COMPLETELY different.

@lale You're missing the point of what I'm saying. The procedures are the same. When the procedures are restricted you are asking the woman with the ectopic pregnancy (or, in my case, leftover pregnancy tissue) to waste valuable time "proving" that her pregnancy isn't viable, in order to access lifesaving services. It's not as simple as "oh, well that woman NEEDS it, but that woman doesn't." Pregnancies are complicated and not always cut and dry. It is not always clear if a pregnancy is viable or not. Miscarriages are not always complete and sometimes procedures and medication are required to fix that. Access for some has to be access for everyone, because it's the ones who need it most who will (and do) suffer when access is restricted.

Depends what you class as a life for a human. Which is different person to person. Is it when you have the same level of cells as a plankton but you wouldn't survive outside the womb unlike a plankton. Or is life when you can survive without support from the womb. It's a tricky philosophical thing to discuss. For me I am pro choice and agree with the 24 week limit in my country. & agree with the exceptions past this (which are very rare). But you know I also agreed with the decision to turn life support off for my granddad because the life he was living wasn't a life. Could have said no but we acted in his best interests and he would have hated it if he had left his strapped to machines in ITU.

@Melissa I think a doctor has enough knowledge the know the difference. Life saving procedures are important, not access to everyone who goes with their whims and desires. I really don’t know what you’re trying to prove, an innocent life had come to an end naturally thus requires a medical procedure vs a woman who has a healthy pregnancy and decides on her baby’s life to end? See the difference? Or can you not tell the difference.

@lale yes, a woman and her doctor are in the best place to make that determination. Not you or me or legislators and certainly not anyone trying to preach to her about "innocent" life. I can tell you from firsthand experience how much that sort of rhetoric HURTS as a woman who has lost two wanted pregnancies. Glad we can agree that the choice should be between the woman and her medical doctor. Cheers! 🥂

@Melissa I was saying a doctor knows what saving a life is vs a woman who CHOOSES to end the life of their innocent baby. But you’re in denial or something as you can accept the differences. Your mindset is abortion is medical care no matter the reason, whereas I say if it’s NECESSARY to save someone in an emergency then it should be done.

@lale doctors are leaving women in critical condition in the States because they are afraid of being persecuted under abortion laws. They are letting women go septic and lose their fertility, because they could lose their license if someone questions their decisions as to whether or not the woman's life or health was actually at risk. And you keep using the word "innocent," but again, this is a moot point because a non-viable pregnancy is no less innocent than a viable one. Women access abortion services for many reasons. It's between her and her doctor to decide whether or not those reasons are valid, not you or me, or anyone else. 💜 If I lived in the States my health would have been at risk when I miscarried. A US judge tried to ban Mifepristone nationwide, a drug which is widely used in situations like mine. You cannot separate women who NEED an abortion versus women who just WANT one, because in practice, they all access the same services and banning those services affects EVERYONE.

All of the above. Human life has many stages and should be appreciated at every stage.

@Melissa that’s malpractice then isn’t it. A doctors duty is to save lives… your system isn’t very good and it must be sorted. You go on about the word innocent don’t you. It is in fact is an innocent life, do you want the definition of the word? Because it’s a fact that a baby is innocent…

@lale lol, it's not my system. I'm talking about the US, where doctors are under threat of being criminalized for performing a D&C on a woman who wasn't quite close enough to death to qualify as 'needing' an abortion. And yes, as I have said and will repeat again, a fetus is no less innocent just because it's not viable. Your moral argument is inherently flawed. Would you like to know what happens in countries with strict abortion bans? Women who have miscarriages are jailed and criminalized. Did they smoke or do drugs while they were pregnant? Eat trash food? Not take their prenatals? They "endangered the baby" and are criminalized for terminating an "innocent" human life. that's where that rhetoric leads. It's already happening in the States, too. But I live in Canada and we can yeetus the fetus anytime we need to. Our rights are enshrined. And thank God my daughter will grow up here and, hopefully, never have to worry about across to medical care should she ever need an abortion for any reason.

@Melissa that’s obviously what I meant, it’s a country that I assumed you were from so i said your system. Their system needs to be sorted out… if someone is in need of medical care because they can die then the doctor should intervene and save them. Simple protocol of a doctor. You need to stop comparing a healthy pregnancy which can go full term and an anomaly that can cause death if not treated. Fetus is just another term for baby, say baby don’t be ashamed, a non viable and viable baby are both innocent. So what is your actual point? You go on and on and blame me for malpractice happening in some country’s. It needs to be sorted out, there’s many flaws in different systems. But morality and facts are what I go by, - a baby is by definition innocent - doctor by definition treats people who are ill - abortion by definition a deliberate termination of a baby. If a woman is about to die from her pregnancy, there needs to be medical intervention as her and her baby would not survive..

@lale have you ever had a miscarriage? Have you ever needed a D&C because of leftover pregnancy tissue? Have you ever had a molar pregnancy, a life-threatening condition that may not naturally resolve on it's own? Have you ever had a fetus, or baby, with a critical birth defect that was identified in late-stage pregnancy, and had to continue to attend all of your OB appointments and carry the pregnancy to term, knowing that the baby will not survive? You don't know a woman's situation. Any woman. Your moral argument is irrelevant. Blanket bans affect miscarriage treatment and directly result in more maternal and infant deaths. They don't save "innocent" babies. They kill living people. That's reality.

The lines between healthy pregnancies and dangerous pregnancy complications are almost nonexistent. Human pregnancy is dangerous and can go wrong in a heartbeat. A million different things can happen. It is critical that doctors are free to make medical decisions based on their professional judgement, not arbitrary moral judgement from people who have never experienced pregnancy complications, miscarriages, or stillbirths.

@Melissa me having gone through a miscarriage has nothing to do with your argument, I have family members and friends who have gone through it. what does any of what you say actually have to do with aborting a healthy baby? Obviously a medical issue needs to be dealt with by a doctor. Blanket bans are an issue then isn’t it, malpractice obviously, it’s healthy termination vs a woman at a health risk. I mean come on some common sense. Im not the one creating these messed up systems that “scare” doctors from helping women in need. It’s sensible to help someone who is ill or dying at a hospital. If I had a medical issue a doctor should help me as per their job description.

@lale look, I'm not going to repeat myself. If you can't understand how pregnancy complications are not cut and dry and cannot be legislated or dictated, that's on you. Any ban on abortion services is a blanket ban, even if you say it's "just for healthy, viable pregnancies." That line is not clear. There are always scenarios that border the line and the line keeps getting redrawn. Do you think those countries that jail women for having miscarriages started with "just jail everyone who loses a baby"? No, they start with "we need to protect innocent unborn babies." It inevitably always leads to women being criminalized, and women who have miscarriages suffer, because they either cannot access the health care they need or are accused of something stupid like aborting their own baby.

Let's say it comes to pass, somehow, magically, that ONLY viable pregnancies are protected. A woman gets pregnant, and at 21 weeks, finds out her baby has Down's syndrome. She then has a miscarriage. How does she prove she actually had a miscarriage, and didn't abort her own baby by choice? One is against the law, one isn't. Yet she can't prove one way or the other. but oh, we have to protect that poor innocent unborn baby, so we'd better make an example of her to make sure other women don't get the idea to abort their babies, too. This is how it happens. It always starts with "protect the poor unborn babies" and ends with controlling and criminalizing women and their bodies. A woman's choice, regardless of her reasons, is her own. Your moral judgement has no place there.

@Melissa do you hear yourself? A country that jails women for miscarriage, like it was their choice. Please stop repeating yourself you sound like a stuck record. There’s obviously proof if someone has an ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage, stop with the long hauled none sense.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-61995250.amp @lale some light reading, enjoy.

@Melissa didn’t I say that’s malpractice, I don’t need to read wrong doings from governments and doctors. Thanks for trying to convince me killing baby’s is fine and should be accepted no matter what 👍🏻

@lale don't worry, it's the abortion bans you're on the side of that are killing babies, and mothers. There will be plenty more in the US soon enough, maternal deaths are already on the rise in red states. Go look up the cases in Texas, since you have absolutely nothing constructive to contribute. Again, cheers. 👍

My only thing is women that have multiple abortions simply because they don't practice consistent contraception/safe sex.

@Melissa do you even know how many preborn baby’s die from abortion every year? Sadly one abortion for every five newborn children. Total number annually 625,978 abortions. So those poor vulnerable souls that have been taken away without a chance in this world. I can’t accept what you want to accept for the sake of malpractice because of a distorted system. You don’t care it seems, you want to focus on the anomaly’s and the sad malpractice of doctors. Let’s look at the majority of abortions, it’s for non other than selfish reasons. Cheers

@lale have you ever had an abortion, yourself? The vast majority of people aren't doing it frivolously for birth control. Why would they? How on earth is getting a surgical procedure, or having to go through medically-induced days of cramping and pain and bleeding, preferable to just taking birth control? Most women will choose birth control. Accidents happen. No birth control is perfect. You can do everything right and still get pregnant, unless you are abstinent, which is not a realistic expectation. You cannot expect someone who wants to remain childless to just never have sex or intimacy for their entire fertile life. That's unreasonable. Most abortions happen because the woman is either scared, made a mistake, cannot afford another pregnancy, got pregnant by the wrong person, or, yes, there's some kind of medical reason (and it's more often than you think. If early scans indicate that you will in fact have a miscarriage, doctors will prescribe abortion medication.

And I can tell you, as a woman who has been through two miscarriages while trying to conceive, no one wants to wait through a miscarriage to happen naturally. It can take weeks. It's a waste of time when you're trying to concieve. Waiting kept me stuck in a stage of grief when I just wanted it over with. You need to stop focusing on the "poor innocent embryos" and think about the reality. The reality is that maternal and fetal health outcomes are WORSE under abortion restrictions. More dead babies. More dead mothers. Not less. More. Because it cripples medical obstetric intervention, even in healthy pregnancies. That's the reality. It doesn't matter if they're innocent or not. More babies and mothers are still dying under restrictive states, and maternal health in the US has taken a downslide. So think about the reality of the side you're choosing. More dead babies.

@lale Here's a source you can look through, that details how many "preborn babies" have been "saved" under Texas' near-total abortion ban: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2819785 255 more infant deaths just between 2021 and 2022 alone. And climbing. Again. More. Dead. Babies. This is the side you're on. Killing innocent children. Enjoy your moral superiority while mothers and babies are dying.

@Melissa you can go on and on still doesn’t justify killing babies. No matter what language you want to use. Selfish reasons are the usual reasons of an abortion. Sex = baby, I think we all know this. The innocent voiceless human beings need to be supported, even if I can’t change things, I can feel empathy for those defenceless poor babies. Carry on justifying and dehumanising these baby’s, I won’t be apart of it.

@Melissa you keep sending me these ridiculous things that is only the systems fault. I told you a doctors job should be to “save” lives no matter what. You want to not fix this fault of the system but to just allow babies to die no matter the circumstance.

@lale show me some statistics to back up your claims that "selfish reasons are the usual reasons." Oh, you don't have any? Because they're not. You are blatantly misinformed and being deliberately obtuse. You are deliberately perpetuating rhetoric that directly harms and dehumanizes women, results in worse maternal health outcomes, and directly leads to more infant deaths, not less. Talking out your ass isn't going to change that.