The phrasing of "birth person" on information

I’d be happy to be called anything if it comes with the investment in pre and postpartum care, mental health and childcare. The problem is that we just re-label things without offering any support to the systemic challenges that are faced by people who birth other people

Trans folk are allowed to be parents too. Why shouldn’t they use the tools they have to facilitate that? If it that means using the uterus they were born with, then why wouldn’t they?

Also, “ultimate sign of femininity” is extremely offensive to those that cannot conceive.

Why people care so much about using inclusive language I will never understand. Exactly how does that language disregard ‘what we go through’ ? Just let people be, it doesn’t affect you at all.

The way I see it is anyone can go by whatever label they want to, but personally I am going to be a mother,and I don’t identify as a birth person! Just because it includes others who may be sensitive around what they want to be known as, why am I labelled and not given a choice? What’s good for the goose n all that…

People love just relating it to people who are trans which cool that’s fine but this could also apply to people who are going through an adoption or surrogacy. Especially those who aren’t fully wanting to place their child for adoption it could be painful hearing or seeing “mom” all the time. I live in a state where you can’t get an abortion. If someone wanted to abort and wasn’t able to they’re now forced to complete a pregnancy and may have issues with the word. My thought is my identity is not so fragile that I can’t be called a person and I have to be called a mom. My kids know I’m their mom and that’s what matters

This topic gets brought up a lot online, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest, it’s better to be inclusive and it takes away absolutely nothing from you, and should a midwife or doctor say birthing person or chest feeding etc and you don’t like it, then ask to be called something else, that’s the whole point of inclusivity

Are you not a person? 😂

Comments passed the vibe check folks, appreciate that!

I’m not offended, but it’s slightly annoying that there needs to be all these changes to accommodate people and not step on their toes. Do what you want, identify as whatever you want. Own it though, and stop being such a wallflower about changing terms that offend you. Everything freaking offends people these days. I said what I said, don’t bother tagging me bc I’m not going back and forth about it.

I am a person giving birth. It takes nothing away from me. It takes more than giving birth to be a mother. Some people are surrogates some families have more than one mother. It makes perfect sense to be more specific on documentation.

Sorry it wasn't intended in that way (in regards to femininity), however I've never looked at a pregnant woman and thought 'dad' either. I agree that pre and post natal health, physical and mental should be a priority regardless, I do not however agree with 'mother' not being on a pamphlet and replaced by a 'birthing person'. It seems that there are changes to vocabulary that only really apply to such a small number, was it really necessary to be made?

Also no one said that they can't be parents, I support those who are born in the wrong body and change it for themselves, I simply do not agree with a pregnant woman wishing to be called dad, during and after the birth.

because "what we go through" simply cannot be experienced by someone born with male parts, there are mothers who have traumatic pregnancy, MCs, births and PND - being a mother incorporates that. It's almost a badge of honour and one i wear with pride. I don't mean to be harsh, but I have not once said that trans shouldn't be parents, however how can a person, in the interest of being neutral, who is pregnant - be taken seriously when they're wanting to be called dad? Genuine question

really solid point on surrogates/adoption etc - thank you for that view. I disagree on 'more specific' though, by labelling women as birthing person it seems the opposite and muddies waters where it's not really needed.

With this said, I'm aware im speaking from a place of privilege. im keen to hear other sides to this, reason for the posy

but the vast majority would be fine with mother, so with respect, why can the very small number of those affected by such offense at 'mother' not then request to be called a birthing person?

Birthing person is an umbrella term that can apply to all. It's not inclusive to a small group. It's inclusive to all. It doesn't negate "Mother." It doesn't change anything. It just includes those who are in our "group" without singling them out.
Bold of those in the majority to be offended by something that included those in the minority.

I mean it’s more specific as in loads of people are mothers at all stages of motherhood, not all have given birth but if you are given an information for a birthing person it’s specifically for someone who is due to give birth.

I disagree , it may not negate from it in your view but it's a name/title I didn't think i'd ever have. Before the wording changed, i assume those who it affected simply asked for the pronouns/name to be changed to suit - said it before but, genuine question, why has it changed for the majority when there was already a pretty simple fix in place? Why is it on the majority to change our ways/wording?

then that's not more specific, it's more inclusive?

It’s both. It’s more specific and more inclusive.

Let's agree to disagree on that 🫱🏼‍🫲🏿

I absolutely am not offended by the term and am happy for anybody to go by the label they choose. But I feel the same should apply to me too,don’t we all get the choice? I’m not a fan of being called a birthing person. I’m not offended by it as it’s technically not incorrect, but I prefer a different label, and that’s ok, because isn’t everyone allowed to be known as what they prefer?

To make a comparison:
Wheelchair ramps are installed so that a specific group of people can use them, but everyone can use the ramp. The ramp is not exclusively for wheelchair users. We could get rid of all staircases and install wheelchair ramps for inclusive.

Also, have you actually been called a "birthing person," or are you just getting offended by words on paper?

Thank you ! I'm fully aware that we're all people/person's... I've tried not to be rude or patronise anyone here, I'm asking genuine questions. However it seems that if you ask and it doesn't sit right then you get hit with rhetorical questions and vibe checks...

In response to your analogy this is the same as the ramp being the only option - give me the same options as those who need the ramp, and allow me to choose the steps without asking. It's on leaflets but also asked as in "what shall I call you both?" - I'm sorry, but I'm clearly female and my husband is clearly masculine. Why does that need to be asked?

I feel the same, if others prefer being called that then they should have that option but I personally don’t want to be called that and I also wouldn’t personally want to be called a “chest feeding person”. But it is good that the door is open for others to be called that, just we should be able to say what we want to be called

Incognito, I have never heard of a mother who has just given birth being called ‘dad’.

But if someone does want to be called “dad” and they have just given birth what is that to you? How does that affect you?

You are a person who gives birth. I doubt any health professional actually refers to you as birthing person during your antenatal / postnatal checks (unless you have specified this is what you’d like to be referred to as). The terminology really doesn’t affect you. It doesn’t make you any less of a mother.

just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It was while i was in a ward and having my checks that the "what shall I call you" chat happened, it's never been questioned before and i didn't see the need to start then. No one said it makes me less of a mother, I don't understand however why blanket terminology is used when it doesn't apply in majority of the situations.

If this were in A&e, for example I could understand persons being used. However, this is a labour ward, maybe a slightly different approach is needed considering the situation?

You literally just said they asked what you prefer to be called. So how exactly does them using a blanket term unless you tell them otherwise affect you? I have a seahorse dad in one of my birth groups for my kids. He’s a lovely human being. Who is 100% a dad. Was called a dad after birth. Is still called a dad now that our kids are 7 and who was also on the cover of several magazines and did many interviews.

The blanket terminology was on information handed out, the question wasn't (imo) needed as we are very obviously feminine and masculine/cis. If in the case where we were ambiguous, I could understand more so. I still however stand by the wording being OTT and in the effort of making the tiny % such as your friend feel included, the basic terminology that's been used for mother's has been replaced.
I would sincerely like to know how giving birth impacted him as a masculine presenting male but with a bump, don't the 2 conflict with one another?

They asked what you’d like to be called…That’s great! Again, what’s the issue? 🤔 I really don’t understand.

I’ve also just read a response you’ve given - even if *you* see yourself as ‘clearly feminine, and your husband clearly masculine’ some others who might be ‘clearly feminine’ to *you*, might actually not identify as a woman. Hence, the need for clinicians to consider terminology and ask what people would like to be referred to.

Again, unsure how it affects you and you have not answered this.

Likewise, not sure how my reasoning affects you... but to answer your question, it affects me because I'm a mother who has been through a rough time of conceiving (didn't know I actually could due to POS), several MCs, and sickness for the entire 9 months. I hope that helps clarify it. the only question you actually asked prior was a sarcastic one. So forgive me but, 'mother' means a lot to me and I disagree with my experience in getting here to be negated to a 'birth person'.

I'm sorry but the entire fact the question needs to be asked is odd to me, I'm sure that those the wording effects are vocal and let clinicians know (plus it will be on their personal record), so it didn't seem appropriate or needed in the slightest there. I can see you work for the NHS, you're not seriously telling me that you ask every single person who walks through the doors for their pronouns?

I love inclusive language! People grow their families in so many different ways so I think this term applies to a wider range of people than most realize. For example, I find it especially helpful as someone married to a woman. We are both mothers so “birthing person” helps our medical providers identify which one of us carried our kids

How did it impact him? Well considering the climate *gestures broadly to this post as an example* he had a lot of hate thrown his way. People telling him his baby was going to be a born a monster. He woke up many nights wondering why people hate them so much. So yeah. It was very impactful.

In case you’re looking for actual real life humans who are impacted by words like you are using

https://youtu.be/XcKN9lZ7QUs?si=wtQi0lKIui4HHh81

I’m not the one being perturbed by this, that’s why I wanted to know how it affects you. Because, quite frankly, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn’t. As long as clinicians respect your wishes and refer to you as what you’d like to be called.

My question wasn’t sarcastic, sorry you took it that way.

I work for a perinatal team, and yes we do ask what people would like to be called, as do the midwifes I work with. I was also asked what I would like to be referred to as when I was pregnant. Some people go in for their booking appointment without any notes on their record. And not everyone reads all the notes, it’s important to ask.

Being a mother and a person are not mutually exclusive. You can be both.

This says more about your ignorance on inclusivity than anything else.

I meant on a more personal level in terms of his well being, not hate thrown from randomers. Just to highlight to you btw I haven't once been hateful in this thread, so the gestures aren't really needed here, although I can appreciate noise elsewhere may not be great.

I'm not sure why a difference in opinion (to which btw the majority who have voted do not like the wording, so it's not just me who's "perturbed") means that I'm ignorant - I simply came here for different opinions to help understand. Not sure on exact definitions, but I'd say that's close to the opposite of ignorant.

Alright then whatever you want to think 🤷🏻‍♀️

You may not realize you are being hateful. But you are. When you say things like “I simply do not agree with a pregnant women wishing to be called dad during and after the birth” that is hateful. A) they are not a women and B) they are dads.

This is what I'm trying to understand but you're not actually explaining , how can you be a dad but pregnant - the 2 conflict one another. If I was born female but believed to be male at heart, I wouldn't then embrace the female parts I do not believe I should have been born with. I'm genuinely trying to understand this stuff a little better but passive aggressive comments aren't helpful, not only do they not inform but they shut out the questions. The who's helped the most with this so far is (thank you 🙏🏽)

There's space for everyone to exist, no one has said differently.

no opinion is an opinion! 😜 Equally as valid

Because they are a dad. It’s literally just that simple.

I really like that way of explaining, thank you J. Maybe then mother could also then be listed, rather than one or the other? As I said, there's space for everyone without any of us feeling pushed out or not seen.

Not sure what birth person means exactly and what the person feels in terms of female/male but it might also be on as an option due to adoption. Like for example the person that is giving birth won’t be the mother but for lack of better words is just the birth person? I feel like birth female sounds kinda degrading 😓

If god forbid I was ever having to give up my baby and I had to tick mother on a sheet of paper in the hospital before giving birth and giving up my child I would be broken.. so maybe it’s a bit of consideration for people that need to do that?

I think what you’re talking about, fair enough that might also be a reason, not sure but like a lot of people said it doesn’t affect you and doesn’t take away from you being a woman or mother. There’s a lot of things people may say that can be a bit offensive to a woman but I think this is just being inclusive x

There is an entire documentary that was filmed in the UK with the BBC called “Seahorse”. It follows a trans man from getting pregnant to birthing his child and being a dad. It shows his entire journey, and he explains the feelings, emotions and conflicting thoughts he felt being a pregnant man.
I feel you may understand things a bit better if you watched it.

what a lovely video

Try to think of using inclusive terminology as a little "you are safe and welcome here" it's a simple way to show that anyone who doesn't relate to the term "mother" won't be discriminated against or subjected to vitriol or mistreatment. I understand that being a mum means a lot to you, but it's far easier and completely safe for you to say "oh actually, just call me mum" than for someone who plans on giving their baby up or who is trans or any other person who won't use the term to ask to not be called mum and know that they will be protected.
I know it's not remotely in the same class but when I wanted to propose to my then girlfriend via photoshoot I had to search high and low for a photographer who had any kind of indication that they would be supportive. I struggled and eventually found one that had a maybe same-sex couple photoshoot that was buried deep in the gallery. If people were using inclusive language then, I wouldn't have been so anxious trying to find someone I knew would be supportive.

I’m in an IVF discord with a trans man who just had a baby and is going through all the same shit the rest of us are right now. Honestly, I don’t give a fuck about what language we use to make people feel more included. There are bigger things to worry about.

For me it's about representation. I support inclusive language. When there exists a term to include everyone by default rather than having to individually name different circumstances, I don't see why it shouldn't be the default term used.

With regards to your point about not understanding why trans men would want the "feminine" task of child bearing... consider some options. Perhaps it's not by choice? Perhaps they are attracted to other men and don't want to adopt when they have the necessary tools? Perhaps the ability to bear a child doesn't affect the gender identity for that specific person.

When someone complains about inclusive language making them feel excluded, it reminds me of the way "policeman" became "police officer" to include women, and men getting upset about it. It can be hard to let go of privilege 🤷‍♀️

I think there's a few things to pick apart here

1: you are not trans so you can't know what you would do or how you would feel if you were.
2: "I'm clearly female and my husband is clearly masculine. Why does that need to be asked?" Because you might not be the mum and dad. You could be a surrogate, he could be your best friend, he could be your dad! As someone who works in the NHS I have previously put my foot in it when automatically assuming gender and familial relations, so asking is better for everyone!
3:"why blanket terminology is used when it doesn't apply in the majority". You're coming from a place of privilege in the majority. Those in the minority have likely faced loathing, abuse, and judgment the majority of their lives. Being included and respected is not their norm, whereas it is yours. So bringing them into the being included category does not push you out, there's enough space for everyone.
4: "I'm sure that those the wording effects are vocal". See point 3 (cont)

4 (cont): if you've been ridiculed and pushed aside and abused for being yourself, you may not have the confidence to speak up and identify yourself to every single medical professional you come into contact with, especially those you have no rapport with. In the NHS trust I work in there isn't a standard easy identification method for trans people on their medical record. Going into the waiting room and calling out "Paul" and a woman stands up still happens, she then has to say "actually it's Lisa". Imagine how much strength that takes in front of a waiting room. Systematic change needs to happen for these people.
5:"maybe mother could be listed, instead of one or the other". You still fall under the umbrella of birthing person, you can be a mother and a person who gives birth. Including others does not exclude you. Letting people know that their medical service includes them is validating and necessary to ensure they they feel comfortable seeking out care. If they didn't, they might put themselves at risk

My final points:
You can be many different things and fall into many different categories, some of those categories you'll share with others in similar circumstances, some you won't.

Imagine you're on a bus, all of the other people are all in the bus, most are passengers, one is a driver. But you're all on the bus. You're all human. Some are going to work, some are going to school.

It doesn't really matter to you what categories the other people in the bus fall into, because you're all there together. You're all allowed to share the same place and the driver has let you on.

In a labour ward, there will be people who are mothers like you, people who are fathers like your husband, people who are male and not fathers, people who are female and not mothers. It doesn't really matter to you, because you're also "on the bus". Referring to everyone "on the bus" of giving birth is correct to say "birthing person", that's a shared category.

(Cont)