Abuse or not?

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. ☹️ but unfortunately it’s not abuse, it’s messed up for sure.. but I don’t think the courts or the social worker will find this as abuse. 😞

yeah I didn’t think it would class as abuse to courts or socials, it’s 100% definitely messed up, he played mental games with his ex and that’s why they split and now he’s got no one left he’s doing it to then and it’s heartbreaking. Thank you so much x

uhhhhhh okay well it’s definitely abuse whether it’s legally considered abuse or not, so sorry you and your babies are going through this. keep telling the people you trust, keep documenting every time your son says that he did it and that it hurts. keep communicating to dad that it’s hurting him and he needs to stop and keep all the evidence. also, unrelated to the potty training situation, he should absolutely be letting your children call/facetime you when they ask. idk about the laws where you are but where i am separated parents are NOT allowed to prevent the children from contacting the other parent. good luck❤️‍🩹

Man that sounds so difficult! Your poor little boy! He's clearly articulating his needs and his dad is basically gaslighting him. It sounds like emotional abuse to me. Especially alongside withholding contact with you etc. do you have a visitation order in place at the moment? Unfortunately (fortunately!?) I've never had to deal with this sort of situation, and I really feel for you, it can't be easy. Hopefully you get the outcome you're after soon, for you and your childrens sake. Xx

I would classify that as neglectful parenting. Also extremely lazy and the social worker should be picking up on that within a parenting assessment if she is conducting one.
Are your children on a plan? Or is the social worker for the purpose of court? As it seems there have been a lot of social workers considering your children are so young.
Asking re a plan as if so, was thinking this could be raised within one of the meetings with all professionals present so you’re not just raising this with only the social worker.
I would also raise it in court re children wanting to contact you and dad not allowing it.

yeah defining whether it’s legally abuse is very hard. I’ve got cctv inside mine (was to watch the dogs when out but had come in useful for these situations as it catches sound aswell) I have so many different times logged that I’ve told him and he’s still doing it.
Oh my solicitor said he should be letting them aswell. The main thing we’re being told is that we need to promote the relationship with each parent and he’s obviously not. My solicitor is trying to get it put in the order he needs to allow them to contact me. Thank you x

oh it’s so difficult. The fact he’s built up the courage to tell him and gets knocked down drives me insane he said to my daughter she could go in the fountains down the seafront because mummy said she isn’t allowed to get her dress wet, I always allow them in the fountains with clothes on and I’m the parent who doesn’t care about getting wet or dirty as we have spare clothes and a washing machine 🤣 I went no mummy didn’t say that I didn’t even know you was heading to the seafront, I had no clue where daddy was taking you and she said “but daddy said you told him I’m not allowed to get my dress wet that’s why daddy didn’t let me in the fountains” I put a stop to that straight away and reassured her that it wasn’t me it was daddy who used mummy as an excuse because I’m not allowing that and also teaching her to not accept that behaviour from anyone regardless of how they’re related. I’ve got an order for visitation that states I have to make them available from Thursday to

to Saturday and that’s all that’s in the order. I really hope so too because my poor babies are suffering mentally xx

oh the social worker isn’t picking up on it 🤦‍♀️ the health visitor is as she made a comment when I told her he’s still being put in nappies and she went “well that’s not going to help him” and I thought thank god she’s on side. We’re on a children in need plan because they think I’m the one emotionally abusing them and wanted to take them out of my care.
Previous ones were just for court but because he’s playing games and twisting what’s going on they put us all on a plan. We’ve got a meeting next week so was going to mention it infront of everyone and call him out.
My solicitor is putting it down as a welfare concern and is going to get it put in the order he’s to allow them to contact me. I’m at the point where I want to get my 6 year old a phone just for these purposes even though I’ve said she’s not having one till she goes to yr6 and starts going to school by herself.

Definitely mention the nappies within the cin meeting in front of all the professionals present. The social worker should be having age appropriate conversations with your children to clarify any concerns you raise that they have talked about with you.
I would also check if you’re entitled to your own independent support through an advocate service. They can support you within meetings and with the social worker, and are very valuable within court scenarios. Ask the social worker about that.
It is a concern, and the social worker very much should be taking it seriously. Both the nappies and the stopping phone contact, you’re well within your rights definitely have the phone contact stipulated. He shouldn’t be saying no if they’re getting upset enough about it

yeah I thought I’m definitely going to bring it up infront of everyone. I may even beforehand message my health visitor about it aswell. Oh the social workers haven’t spoken to the children at all other than over a year ago before it went to overnights 🤦‍♀️ they’ve cancelled every appointment to see me and the children but yet have still kept the appointment to just see me and get “my views” but have seen him multiple times with the children 🤦‍♀️ I’m currently under a domestic abuse support and socials have said they’re not allowed in the meetings as they’re biased 🤦‍♀️ so my aunts been coming with me. The whole thing with nappies and the contact is beyond me I don’t get how he can think it’s okay to do what he’s doing and socials not taking it seriously. My 3 year old blurted out to me tonight daddy makes him angry because he doesn’t let him come home and that’s now come from both children 😢 x

I would ask within the meeting, again with professionals present, why she will visit your children with their dad but not when they are in your care. As you said her concerns for the children’s wellbeing are when they are in your care. Therefore she should be observing interactions whilst the children are in your care and your care of the children.
How is she able to observe and record any positive changes she’s asked you to make in your care of the children if she doesn’t visit when you’re together? She can’t. She should also be seeing the children alone each time she visits to gather their wishes and feelings.

I appreciate I do not know concerns of the LA and I’m only aware of your perspective, however from what you have said it appears that she has a bias and she shouldn’t. It’s unprofessional.

that’s actually a good idea, I never like standing up to people because my mumma bear rage kicks in and it’s not pretty or professional 🤣 but they’ve seen him 3 times in the last 4 months and not seen me once 🤦‍♀️ it doesn’t make sense if they have concerns when in my care but yet aren’t seeing them in my care. None of it adds up.
Yeah she’s not been able to observe anything at all and put it in the report. She’s only using my responses in the cin meetings. She wrote in one report I walked out when I asked to go out for a minute as I had therapy dad, his gf and the 2 social workers shouting at me and they said yes that’s fine but wrote down I walked out 🤦‍♀️ as far as I’m aware when she’s seen them with dad she’s not spoken to them seperately or at all as my daughter says her and daddy were talking and we were playing.

Oh she is biased. I reported her for being biased as she told him stuff in my meeting that he then used in his court statement and the only way he would’ve known

That is by her telling him as that wasn’t in their report and the social worker still tried phoning me telling me I shouldn’t have made a complaint about her. Socials then stepped away but because of an allegation dad made against me they came back in again ordered by the court and the same worker came back and I said no your not working my case I’m not allowing you near my children or in my home so she said my supervisor will do it instead but they’ve tag teamed and she’s still part of it 🤦‍♀️ she also was biased 3 years ago before court started. I had her as a case worker and she told me to only allow contact through a contact centre or in a public place with me over the phone so I told dad this. He then went to her and she put in an email “I never said that to mum I told her to allow unsupervised contact” and after that I stopped talking to her about anything. She got let go and then had clearly come back again and I’m livid. My solicitor has said she’s never seen a report so badly

Biased and even the judge in the last hearing knew they were biased as I was offering dad nothing but extra time and he kept declining because of work 🙄 and said to socials “does this ease your fears on mum stopping contact” and they said no and the judge rolled her eyes at them and said well it does line and that’s what counts 🤣.

I really do recommend looking into an independent advocate to attend with you as they are another professional who can support you to dispute things stated that you feel are untrue or half truths eg the walking out.
You can also dispute the social workers recorded cin meeting minutes when you receive your copy if you do not feel this is an accurate record. With other professionals present they can also state their observation when this is raised. Why is dad’s girlfriend attending? Does she live with him and being assessed as a couple? If not no need for he there if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

I would also raise this with her line manager, per statutory guidelines she should be seeing the children alone. Does she see them in school away from dad? As this is another place she can gather wishes and feelings and observe behaviour away from you and dad for her report.

The social worker very much should not be calling you to tell you you cannot make a complaint.

I would record in a book every conversation made, with dates and times. As “if it’s not recorded it didnt happen” as the saying goes. She should be making detailed case recordings of each conversation with you also. Which can be seen on the system if these have been edited or changed in any way! The court can request these if they are necessary and relevant.

ah okay I will definitely look into it as that would really help. I’ve gone to my solicitor after each cin meeting to tell them what exactly was said and agreed so that I’ve then given it to her for when the minutes come through. That’s very true, the health visitor said her only concern is that my son isn’t toileting when with dad and it’s a cause for concern so that’s going in my favour. She was attending they’ve now split, he moved into her house purely for the fact of being allowed overnights, overdose he was in a 1 bed flat and he wouldn’t have been allowed overnights.

I looked into it today and it says they should be getting the children’s wishes and feelings and they’re not so definitely something I’m going to raise with them. My solicitor said they should also be talking with them aswell and seeing them with me. She saw them in school last year around October time so close to a year ago before overnights started and hasn’t spoken to them since. They usually phone

Me to let me know they’ve spoken to them but they’ve not done anything or even mentioned it in the meetings.
Oh when she did I hung up on her because I was like I’m not getting into that at all. That’s so unprofessional.
My aunts been writing statements after every cin meeting and is writing her personal opinion aswell as she’s a nurse for a&e so I’ve got that down. She will write that they “challenged” me their challenged me means they shouted at me and told me I pissed them off (quite literally the safeguarding leads words and no social worker stopped her I had to tell her to stop and she said no) that’s not been put down anywhere 🤦‍♀️

the safeguarding lead for the school? The social worker chairs the meeting and she is responsible for making sure each individual is respectful. She should have addressed the behaviour.
I am a local authority social worker and I am sorry for what you’re experiencing. Again I only know what you have told me, but I do feel that professionalism isn’t quite there.
I feel like all are forgetting children are at the centre of this (sorry to say but for lack of a better word) “mess”.
From your end all I can advise is to do all you are asked and evidence it. And make sure your babies are happy, healthy and needs are all met when they’re with you.
If you can, email and raise it directly with the social workers line manager regarding LA visits with your children. You won’t be told all the children are saying but you should be made aware of visits and the children should be seen alone.

yeah the one from my sons nursery, the safeguarding lead/head teacher at my daughters school hadn’t joined the meeting at this time. Oh they didn’t one bit stop her. I had to tell her to stop and she said no you’ve pissed me off and then the ex’s gf started shouting at me so I defended myself and socials told me of all people to stop talking 🤦‍♀️😡
Thank you so much this social worker has been so unprofessional throughout the whole thing and hasn’t been impartial at all and it’s like no matter what I say or do it’s the wrong thing and I’m emotionally harming them but they’re distraught every week going and cry all the time all of a sudden in the last 2 months.
Oh it is a mess but yeah they’re concentrating more on mine and his parenting and communication instead of the children and everytime I try and divert it back to the children they bring it back to me and him need to make decisions together etc.
Yeah I’m definitely at the verge of wanting to mention it because the whole

Thing had been handled so wrong. Oh yeah I wouldn’t be expected to be told what they spoke to them about the same as when my daughter starts therapy unless it’s a major safeguarding thing I wouldn’t expect them to tell me what’s said. The children have been seen once in a year alone and started crying when asked if they want to see daddy. That in itself should speak volumes but here we are 🤦‍♀️.

I think you should ask to speak with her manager. Or ask that the manager attends the next cin meeting and explain that you feel uncomfortable due to being sworn at.
You do need to make decisions together but unfortunately you can’t control what happens at dad’s home. They know that. And sometimes part of coparenting is to accept that you and dad won’t always have the same parenting styles (nappies aside).
Have you tried a family group conference?
Have they offered to help you to understand why they feel the children are being neglected emotionally? Have they offered any kind of family support within the home or a parenting course? If not ask about this as this will show your willingness to learn and grow. Maybe ask them to help you understand child development to support with their emotions.
I can’t imagine it’s easy at all but any kind of support show your capacity as a parent to learn too