Tinuke Awe and Clo Abe on Five X More, Why Black Mothers Need to Be Heard, and Working to Put Themselves Out of Business

We sat down with Tinuke Awe and Clo Abe on set for our 2026 Changemakers campaign. Together, they co-founded Five X More, the UK organization working to improve Black maternal health outcomes, named for the 2018 finding that Black women were five times more likely to die during pregnancy, childbirth and the six weeks after. In this conversation, they talk about the birth stories that sparked it all, why progress still isn't enough, how motherhood makes the work feel more urgent, and what each has learned from the other.

Tell us about Five X More, the cause and the work.

Tinuke: Five X More is a women's health organisation that specialises in Black maternal health outcomes. We're very, very passionate about improving maternity outcomes for Black women in the UK. For the longest time, Black women have had far from the best experiences during pregnancy, childbirth and the six-week period after, hence the name Five X More.

This started from your own experiences as Black mothers navigating the maternity system. When did you realize it wasn't just your story?

Tinuke: I had a really terrible experience giving birth to my son in 2017. At the time I was running a mothers' group, which I still run, called Mums and Tea, and that's how I connected with Clo. She'll say I stalked her, but it was networking! Mums and Tea was about getting new mums together, giving them a chance to get out of the house, make a new mummy friend and talk about their experiences so far. When you get new mums together, everyone asks, "What was your birth like? How was your labour?" Unfortunately, I was hearing a lot of bad experiences from Black mums specifically.

So when the stats came out the following year, in 2018, showing that Black women were five times more likely to die during pregnancy, childbirth and the six-week period after, I wasn't surprised. I wasn't shocked. I'd been hearing these experiences. I wanted to hold an event, and I joined forces with Clo, because at the time she was working in maternity and I was running Mums and Tea. I said, "Let's collaborate, let's do something." That was seven years ago. We've been going ever since, and it's been quite a journey.

So many of the women you've spoken to describe the same thing: feeling dismissed, and their pain not taken seriously. What needs to change for that to stop happening?

Clo: Women need to be seen and heard, and they need to be listened to. It's that simple. A lot of the women we speak to feel that health professionals just aren't listening to them, and that's why they receive bad care.

The disparity has improved slightly since you started, but Black women in the UK still face several times the risk. How do you hold both the progress and the fact that it's still not enough?

Tinuke: While the disparity seems to have gone down, and of course we welcome any woman and family being saved, you have to remember there are real people behind the statistics. Even if the progress is welcome, it's still tiny. Black women in the UK are still almost three times more likely to die during pregnancy, childbirth and the six-week period after. These are real people, real stories and real families being affected by something we feel could easily be sorted. It shouldn't even be a thing in the first place.

So for us, the goal is to put ourselves out of business. We don't want to exist. We want to make sure Five X More doesn't need to exist because the disparities aren't there. To do that, we have to work super hard and never take our foot off the gas.

You're both mothers doing this work. Does motherhood make it feel more urgent, or harder to carry?

Tinuke: It makes it feel so much more urgent, because I have daughters, one already here and one on the way. I don't want them to be campaigning about the same thing in 20 or 30 years' time, should they choose to give birth. There's a real sense of urgency. We've got to get this sorted. But it also makes it hard, because being a mum with any job, or being a mum full stop, is difficult. When there's so much work to do and two and a half kids, juggling everything day to day can be tough.

Clo: Both. I see the joy I bring my children and the joy they bring me. That alone makes me want to carry on with this work, because I want all Black mums to feel that same joy, and I want all Black children to have the joy of having their mum around.

What has this partnership meant to you personally? What does the other person give you that you couldn't give yourself?

Clo: Working with Tinuke is what makes this work possible. When Tinuke isn't feeling well, I can take over and tell her to rest, and when I'm not feeling well, she does the same. We're in sync now. It took us a while to get there, but we understand each other and know each other's strengths. Tinuke likes the camera, being out there and talking. That's her thing. I like being in the background, off camera. We really gel, even though we're opposites.

One thing Tinuke has given me is empathy. Before, I didn't really know how to exercise it. If someone told me their mum or dad was ill, I'd ask, "How's your mum?" and move on. Now I understand that their mum might be ill, but how are they doing? Just because they're not the one who's ill doesn't mean they're not going through it. In the work we do, that's a brilliant skill to have.

Tinuke: We're literally yin and yang, and I think that strengthens our partnership, because our strengths and weaknesses balance each other out. Most of the time, it's just been the two of us running Five X More. So many people think we're a big group of mothers or health professionals, but it's just us two. I think that's because our partnership and friendship work so well.

One thing Clo has definitely given me is big thinking and strategy. We're both big thinkers, but my favourite line is, "Clo, can I borrow your brain for a day?" She interrogates things and thinks about the smallest details, and that can be game-changing. She cares about the small details, but she's also always thinking ahead, whereas I can be very much in the moment. I've definitely learned that from her.

What are you most hopeful about for the future of Black maternal health in the UK?

Tinuke: We want to put ourselves out of a job. We exist because of the five times more disparity, so we don't want Five X More, or the disparities, to exist. That's what we're working towards: getting the gap down to the point where there's equality, and no one is dying unnecessarily in childbirth, in the UK and around the world.

What does being a Changemaker mean to you?

Clo: Being recognised as a Changemaker means a lot to both of us. When we started, it wasn't about awards or the spotlight. It was about creating change and knowing that Black women would stop dying unnecessarily from things that are very preventable. Being noticed by a company like Peanut means our work will be seen on a bigger platform and can create change nationally.

Tinuke: For me, it means leaving the world a better place than I found it, not just for my children but for all children everywhere. I feel a duty and responsibility to make sure there are better outcomes and more positivity in the world. Being a Changemaker means thinking not just of the here and now, but of the future and the legacy that comes with it.

Read more about the Changemakers here.