Fill me

You've broken so many firsts - first size 16 model on ASOS, first plus-size show at London Fashion Week - and now you've founded MOTHER AI to reduce the mental load on mothers. What does it feel like to look back at the thread connecting all of that?

Looking back at the thread connecting all of my career - being the first plus-size model, the first size 16 model on ASOS, the first plus-size model on the cover of Women's Health - all of these things, for me, have been a way that I show up in the world. If I see a problem, I like to think: how can this be improved? The thread connecting all of it is: when something with the world doesn't feel right, what solution can we create? How can we reimagine it? How can we make a change that affects the world I want to live in, makes my life a bit easier, and hopefully inspires others that we don't just have to accept what's in front of us - we can do something about it.

When I became a mom, I realized that was the biggest point in my life where I felt inequality - not because I didn't have a capable partner or supportive family, but because the weight of being a parent in this day and age, as a modern mother, is just a lot to bear alongside a career, a family, and a house to run.

You're a mom of twins. What did motherhood teach you about yourself that your whole career hadn't?

Where do we even start? For one, it taught me to be present, to be in the moment. Throughout my whole 20s I was always thinking about the next thing, the next goal, what's coming up - children force you to be in the here and now, and stop. There's a misconception that when you have kids, work goes on the back burner - that you're not really serious about your job anymore because you're too busy. And that is true, in a way. But never in my life have I been so productive, so disciplined with my time, so focused on routines and sustainable energy. It's changed the way I eat, I food prep now, I put myself to bed at 9pm because I have to show up. I want it all - a really good career and to be present with my kids. That's not to say I want it all at the same time, because no one can, that's impossible - but I want to show up as best I can. I think I've performed better now than I did in my 20s, when I had all the time in the world.

The CEO MUM podcast is built on the premise that ambition and motherhood aren't opposites. But our data shows 70% of mothers feel they've had to shrink their career ambitions since having children. What's your honest take on why that is still happening?

It's hard, and the systems we're working within are completely outdated. Having to sit in an office 9 to 5 while also coming home to do dinner, put a wash on, and make sure your child's emotional needs are met - it's all too much, and we don't have to be in an office every day to be productive. We saw that in COVID: working remotely created the same amount of productivity as working in an office. It's layered, too. Millennial women especially grew up being told, from a young age, to dream big - I want to be a doctor, a lawyer, all these ambitions - and then you have a family and get hit with the motherhood penalty. They say becoming a mother is when you're affected by inequality the most in your whole lifetime. Up until that point, you're equal to your male counterpart. Then you take maternity leave, step back a year, maybe have another child, step back another year - and that's the pivotal point where your male counterpart gets promoted, or takes the job overseas. That's where the gender pay gap comes in. It's systemic, and it's cultural - mothers tend to be the default parent a lot of the time. A question I like to ask is: how can ambition and motherhood coexist, and what way can you make that work holistically for your family? Everyone's setup is individual. What I've explored on CEO MUM is that everyone has a unique tapestry, and what works for me isn't going to work for someone else. I'm lucky to have five members of my family in the same postcode as me - that's a postcode lottery. I have a partner with a flexible job who can do drop-off and pickup, who food preps and cooks dinner more than I do. That's all a real privilege.

If you could sit with yourself in those first few weeks as a mom of newborn twins, what would you say?

I was in the pit of exhaustion, trying to do everything really, really right, trying to get it perfect while also not knowing anything - I would have said just relax. Those times are so fleeting. Being in the here and now feels like forever in the moment, but it goes so quickly - I blinked and my twins are nearly three now, and it's so much easier in some ways. I miss it. You blink and you miss it. So know that you don't have to get it perfect. Know that being imperfect is exactly right, that it's meant to look messy, that you're meant to think "what the hell am I doing" and roll with it - it's gonna go so quick.

You ran a marathon in your underwear to challenge fitness norms. You've campaigned with UN Women. You're now building tech to solve the mental load. Where does that drive come from, and has becoming a mother changed it?

Motherhood has definitely changed my drive - it's made it more fierce, disciplined, and focused, because there's something I'm doing that's more than me. A lot of women can relate to that: you're setting an example for another generation, creating a path that's going to affect people - and it's going to affect my daughter, my son. I can't accept things that aren't working. The mental load that a lot of parents, specifically mothers, carry is so silent and invisible - you can't see the burnout coming until it does. We have technology now, so why aren't we using it in our favor? Naivety has gotten me this far in my career - I didn't come from the fashion industry when I became a plus-size model, didn't know the trolling I'd get for saying loving your body is a good thing. And in this parenting chapter, I know nothing about tech, I'm non-technical, but I've got real lived experience - I'm directly connected to the pain point, and I've got a great technical co-founder, and we're going to figure it out. Naivety has gotten me this far, motherhood has only focused my drive, and I think this is a universal problem that can be fixed.

61% of mothers describe their wellbeing as "good," yet 93% are experiencing burnout. Does that tension reflect anything you've seen in your own community, or lived yourself?

93% of mothers experiencing burnout does not surprise me. We've been conditioned to present perfectly - like we've got it all together, like our lives are somewhat messy but pretty much in order. That's years of conditioning, years of the generation before us being socialized to put their needs last, to present like "this isn't about me, it's about other people." That's changing. Just identifying words like "the mental load" puts it into the physical - it's trying to manage everyone's calendars, diaries, nursery schedules, food prep. It's so much, but being able to identify it, articulate it, is the first step in changing it. When I was modeling, a lot of my work also involved talking about mental health. I had a master's in child psychotherapy before I got into fashion, and I remember my mom saying that back in her day, we never spoke about mental health - we'd just say someone "wasn't quite right." Now there are degrees for it. I feel the same way identifying motherhood, and the areas within it — invisible labor, the mental load, all the things you just do. Women are talking about it now, sharing it, saying they don't want that anymore. What I love is that once we can put it into words, it can be shared, delegated, outsourced - rather than carrying the burden alone. Hopefully that brings the start of burnout down.

Who's your favorite TV or movie mom?

Rebecca Pearson, from This Is Us - anyone who knows me knows this. She's a scripted character, obviously, but she feels so real. I resonate with her wanting to show up and do her best while being human, living in a family that's real, with real issues, trying to keep afloat and keep these little humans alive while dealing with everything the world throws at you. Through all of it, she just keeps trying, keeps striving to show up, and I love that. I also love how she held onto her own dream of becoming a singer - I resonate with that. There are times I'm with my kids and I love them, I want to be with them 24 hours a day, and then I think, actually, I still really love my dreams, I love being in a room with a voice, showing up, making money. All the sides of you, not just one. I think Rebecca demonstrated that really well.

What do your twins think your job is?

Whenever Blake sees any equipment in the house, she'll say "Mummy's podcast? Podcast?" I think one of them is that mummy gives good cuddles. She knows I'm going to work when I've done my hair and makeup, because she'll say "Mummy, you look fancy" - or my son will go "Mummy, fancy, like your dress, ooo." I don't really think they know what I do, to be honest. Sometimes I don't even know what I do.

What are you most hopeful about for the future of motherhood?

I'm really hopeful that the future of motherhood looks distinctly different to how our mothers experienced it. There's more equality in the household, we're able to change the expectation of what a mother is, release the expectation of having to be perfect and do it all alone. It's liberating - you're a mother, but you're also a woman, a girl, a human, and you get to live your dreams, not put them on the back burner, and show up for yourself as much as you show up for your kids.

What does being a changemaker mean to you?

Being called a Changemaker is an absolute honor. You kind of just do what you do - you don't really think of yourself in any particular way, you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. But generally, the hope you have for a title like that is that you can effect change, make a difference, improve people's lives in some sense. I hope I can do a little bit of that in my own way.